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Interview:
Interview with Greg Garrett Part II
By Matt Yocum
Published: 09 January 2006
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Continued from Part I
MY: One of the points you make in the book is what makes
Superman a vital character is his superhuman “restraint,” that
Superman places on himself limitations. And we are even now seeing
the response from other superheroes and the public what happens when
those limitations are crossed when Wonder Woman killed Max Lord.
At the same time that I see these superhuman restraints, I also see
that virtually every issue of a comic must show some sort of fight
scene — even between fellow superheroes — for sometimes
the slightest thing. It seems a staple of American superhero comics
that there be a fight in every issue, and perhaps this comes from
something else you said in the book: “We love violence just as much as
we love hatred.”
From comics how can we take away lessons of non-violent action to
make a difference in the world when every issue showcases the violent
moments of our superheroes?
If I were writing the book today I would
probably talk more about Sandman and Hellboy, which have become some
of my favorites.
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GG: I came back to Superman over and over again, not because
he’s my favorite comic character — I have to confess that Batman,
Wolverine, and John Constantine, along with other more conflicted and
violent characters, are my favorites from a literary and a fan
standpoint — but because he’s so clearly a moral paragon, from his
creation by two Jewish teenagers to fight injustice to the present
day. You can look at him as a big boy scout if you want to, but I also
think there’s something supremely admirable about refusing to be
pragmatic, about believing with all your heart and soul that some
things are right and some things are always wrong. Superman does not
kill because killing is wrong and because there are always other
alternatives if you are resourceful enough. Even if there weren’t
other alternatives, Kal-El would not want to live in a world where
doing the wrong thing became the necessary thing to do. That’s what
has strained his close friendship with Wonder Woman to the breaking
point; he doesn’t want to have been saved at the cost of someone
else’s life, even a villain’s life. Batman, violent and brooding as he
is, dark to Superman’s light, is having the same conflict these days
with Jason Todd (if the Red Hood is indeed Robin II returned from the
grave): mangle and bludgeon the bad guys if you must, put them in a
cast or in intensive care if that’s what it takes to protect society,
but do not kill them. It’s why Spider-Man is always so uneasy with and
sometimes fights to stop the Marvel universe heroes like Wolverine and
the Punisher. We don’t kill. It’s what makes us different from the bad
guys. It’s the same thing Catman says to Green Arrow at the end of the
Villains United run: “You’re supposed to be the good
guys. Act like it.”
Violence is a staple of comics, as it is of American culture.
Because superhero comics are action/adventure stories, conflict is
almost always worked out through violence, and I agree, in some cases
it seems a little ridiculous: All right, we just met, so let’s fight.
Of course sometimes it’s more justified as a plot element: the only
way to stop the Joker/Bizarro/the Red Skull/etc. from killing a lot of
people is to kick the crud out of him, and even people who oppose war
will sometimes make exceptions. There is something called “Just War”
theory, about making war or defending yourself when there really is no
other option, and I’m not so naïve to think that, for example,
Think about Brian Michael Bendis’ recent work putting
people in a room or standing around and talking. His recent
“Decalogue”
run on Daredevil was mostly just an encounter group sitting in a
church basement, and it was freaking brilliant.
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Hitler
and the Nazi state would have ever stopped killing people unless
they’d been forced to stop. We can sometimes accept violence as a
necessary means to the ends of peace and justice. But violence in a
story just for the sake of violence is probably pretty close to most
people’s definitions of pornography — unnecessary, gratuitous, and
just for our titillation. Other nations are amazed at America’s
puritanical attitudes toward sex and our permissive attitudes toward
violence. And frankly, I think they may have something. I don’t think
consuming violence necessarily makes you violent — my older son
has been playing violent video games since he was four years old and
is one of the gentlest people I know, and I took a class this summer
at the home of a Native American peace activist who had a copy of Kill
Bill on her shelf — but I do think we have to recognize that
ethically and morally, violence should always be our last solution,
not our default setting.
Thankfully, there are also other kinds of conflict in
comics — think about Brian Michael Bendis’ recent work putting
people in a room or standing around and talking. His recent
“Decalogue”
run on Daredevil was mostly just an encounter group sitting in a
church basement, and it was freaking brilliant.
MY: Parts of your book appear as commentary on the state of
American foreign policy and international relations. Do you feel
comic writers should more overtly express their opinions on the
current state of world affairs in their comics (e.g., what Mark Millar
is doing in The Ultimates) or do you think they should focus on comics
as entertainment and leave others to draw whatever parallels they see?
GG: I think artists are like anybody else — some feel
comfortable stating what they think about things and some don’t. And
some do it well, without stepping on other people’s toes, and some are
in your face. But we don’t always even know what an author’s beliefs
are. In my novel Free Bird, I make some pretty explicit social,
religious, and political statements that seem right in line with the
characters expressing them; some of them I share, and some I don’t. I
do like Millar’s political slant, if that’s what it is, but it’s
partly because I agree with it. And I think that’s an artistic
dilemma; people who disagree with you are less likely to get involved
in the story. Of course, in a really good story, people may be more
inclined to be sympathetic toward views that are not their own. So I
don’t know where I stand on this: as a writer, I think thematic
questions ought to grow out of the story itself, but as an American
citizen and a person of faith, I want to see people speaking out
against violence, oppression, and injustice in whatever medium is
available to them.
MY: As the book clearly shows, spiritual lessons can be
learned from the archetypal heroes in comics. Are you aware of any
religious characters in comics? How much does this play, do you feel,
into who they are as a character?
GG: A few overtly religious characters in comics — that
is to say, a primary part of their identity is that they are people of
faith — would be Kurt Wagner/Nightcrawler from the X-Men,
Peregrine and The Maid in Alan Moore’s Top 10 mythos, and some
writers’ versions of Matt Murdock/Daredevil. There are other
characters who profess a belief in God or a supreme being — in
Holy Superheroes I mention a scene from one of the Superman books
where Superman tells Lois that he is no different from anyone else
using the abilities God gave him — but these four are characters
for whom faith actually seems to make a difference in how they live
their lives and in how and why they do the work they do. There’s a
difference between surface religiosity that many people
profess — “I believe in God” or “I go to synagogue every
week” — and religion that transforms a person’s life, and I’d have
to say that these characters seem to embody that transformation. The
true work of religious people is the work of bringing peace and
justice into the world. It’s a gospel message, it’s in the Hebrew
Torah and the Koran, and we see it played out in the lives of these
characters.
MY: As this site is devoted to the comics fan, what would
you list as your favorite current reads in comics? And what do you
consider the 5-star, must-reads that you would recommend to someone?
GG: I’m pretty mainstream in the comics I read — they’re
mostly superhero comics, and mostly from the Big Two publishers. The
books that I’m most excited about on a monthly basis are DC books
these days, which surprises me a little, but I think DC has featured
the best stories over the last year or two. I’m currently almost
completely off the X-Men, which is a little troubling to me as they
used to be among my favorite characters, but it got to be too much to
keep up with — too many titles, too many characters. My current
top ten would be Hellblazer, Planetary, Astonishing
X-Men, Powers, Batman, New Avengers,
Superman and Batman, BPRD or any current title in Mike
Mignola’s universe, Daredevil, and The Ultimates. I also
read or have read a lot of the company-wide event titles, but I have
found the Infinite Crisis and House of M flagship titles
a lot less interesting than some of the spin-off books. I liked
Countdown to Infinite Crisis a lot, liked Villains
United, and I’m intrigued by the new Quicksilver book
following up House of M. Oh, and in case anyone’s listening, I
want Hawkeye back.
I recommend a number of graphic novels at the back of Holy
Superheroes, but there are some things I’d add now that almost two
years have passed since I sent the book to the publisher. If I had to
suggest ten graphic novels or collections, I’d go with Maus,
Watchmen, A Superman for All Seasons, Planetary: All
Over the World, Avengers Forever, Frank Miller’s first
Dark Knight, one of the early Powers trade paperbacks,
one of the first five Hellboy collections, some Sandman,
and the first volume of 9-11: Artists Respond.
I don’t think
consuming violence necessarily makes you violent…
I took a class this summer
at the home of a Native American peace activist who had a copy of Kill
Bill on her shelf.
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MY: If you had the chance to write one existing comic title,
which comic would that be and why?
GG: I’d love to write Daredevil. Matt Murdock is a
good guy who can’t seem to catch a break. He’s had a thousand
beautiful girlfriends, a high-profile law practice, and yet he always
seems to end up alone. I love to write characters who wrestle with
life, and the fact that this one also wrestles with supervillains
makes him that much more appealing.
MY: I would hazard a guess that most fans of comics are also
fans of the movie The Matrix. Can you tell me a little more about
your book The Gospel Reloaded?
GG: Well, it’s no secret to anyone that the Matrix movies
are chock-full of religious and philosophical references, since the
Wachowski Brothers are avid — maybe rabid — readers and
thinkers. My friend Chris Seay and I looked at the first film and the
script of the second (neither the second or third were out as we went
to press) and talked about the many borrowings from Jewish, Christian,
and Buddhist belief systems and how the mythic stories in the Matrix
films can help us solve problems in our own lives — sort of
similar to the approach I took in Holy Superheroes, although
HS is a
little more systematic and structured. So, Neo is the Messiah, and
Jesus, and the Buddha. Oh, and Superman.
MY: You mentioned you’re currently working on a new book
related to religion and film. Can you give an idea of where you’re
headed with the book? Also, any other books in the works?
GG: This is a book in the best-selling series that includes
The Gospel According to the Simpsons and The Gospel
According to Tolkien. It’s going to be called The Gospel
According to Hollywood, and I’m going to be trying to write the
definitive book for a popular audience about how film serves both as a
contemporary religious system and can help us connect or reconnect to
other faith systems. The book will be out in spring 2007, and I can
tell you it will discuss Constantine, Hellboy, The
Matrix, Batman Begins, and the new Superman film, as well
as a number of other films from classic films like Casablanca
and Wizard of Oz to contemporary films like Pulp
Fiction, Magnolia, and Signs.
I also have a book coming out this fall which is a real departure
for me. Instead of fiction or critical writing, it’s a memoir about
depression, which I suffered from for much of my life, and faith. It’s
currently called Crooked Lines, although it may be out under another
title. I’ve also finished my third novel and we’re shopping it around,
so we hope to have it placed shortly.
MY: If you could leave one takeaway from your book Holy
Superheroes!, what would it be?
GG: Dumbledore tells the students of Hogwarts in the fourth
HP novel that we’re all presented with the choice between what is
right and what is easy. What we choose defines what sort of person
we’ll be. We can live like the superheroes we admire, giving our lives
in service to others, or we can live like the villains we profess to
hate, living only for ourselves. So maybe we should get bracelets that
help us to remember: WWSD (What Would Superman Do?).
Feel free to email me at myocum@comiccritique.com and if
you’d like to learn more about Greg Garrett, visit his
site.
—CCdC— Cover image supplied by publisher.
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